One Stop Motors - I Smell a Scam
April 4th, 2008
[SavvyDad is guest-blogging today - Thanks, hon!]
I think I almost got scammed by onestopmotors.com. I had to post a review of my experience. If you don’t want the details, skip to the last two paragraphs.
I was toying with the idea of selling my car recently and posted an ad in the local classified website, kslcars.com. The site allows you to post images and a description of your car - no charge. It goes in their database which is easily searchable by year, price, mileage, vicinity, etc. Very easy to browse for a car. No complaints about it.
Two days later, I got a call from a rep from One Stop Motors saying they saw my car ad on KSL’s website. They told me they can sell my car for more than I’m asking and that I can keep all the money they get for the sale. Naturally skeptical, I asked how they make money. He said, “By arranging the financing for buyers.” I was stuck in traffic and figured I could listen to the rest of the story. What followed was a very savvy sales pitch.
I gave them some specs on my car, and they gave me a quote about $1500 more than I was asking. For a $500 fee they would advertise my car on their network until it sold by doing keyword buys for search engines, posting on their affiliate sites, etc. Since ads cost money, they say, it’s in their interest to sell my car quickly. They told me they’d keep advertising until it sold, even if it cost more than the $500 I would be giving. It did make me wonder who would ever buy from them, though. You know they’re asking as much as they think they can get - more even than the actual owner thinks is fair. Whatever.
After their pitch, I expected some pressure to close the sale. To my surprise, it didn’t come. I said I’d think about it. He asked when he could call back. I said, effectively, “Don’t call me, I’ll call you.” “Okay,” he said. “Let me email you that quote and our website so you can check it out.” I gave him my email address, and that was the end of the call.
That email never came and a week later he called back. In the meantime, I went to their website and googled their name. The site looks legit enough. The other search results were …peculiar. The first results were mostly links to them. The #3 result was from a site called “Rip-Off Report,” with this blog entry, which reads like a sales pitch, clearly not an objective assessment of someone’s experience. Get this quote: “…they continue to fulfill their commitment to superior customer service…” and “*UPDATE Employee.. inside information ..OneStopMotors provides everything they say they will.” (How reassuring.) They clearly have a wide network of rather disingenuous bloggers. Many dozens of search results have URLs with some permutation of their name. I can’t prove they’re trying to drown out dissent, but if you were going to, this is exactly what it would look like.
So I go the the Better Business Bureau site and find this page which reports “this company is not a member” and “The company has an unsatisfactory record due to the failure to eliminate the underlying cause of consumer dissatisfaction.” This causes me to look deeper into google search results and find individual experiences. Then I ask myself, “If I give them $500, what keeps them from doing nothing?” According to one customer, “they keep calling untile[sic] they get your credit card # then you never here [sic] from them again.”
When I got the next call, I said I would not be doing business with them as I saw they weren’t members of the BBB. The sales rep told me, “The hell we’re not!” (They’re not.) He then insulted me and asked if I realized the volumes they deal with. Before I could respond, he hung up on me. It’s possible he had a point. According to the BBB, of “168 complaints in the last 36 months, 66 were closed in the last year,” which tells me they have made some efforts to resolve complaints. Whether it’s because they care about the customer, or the just bad publicity is anyone’s guess. FYI, Costco had a total of 257 complaints in the same time period.
I would not do business with One Stop Motors. If you pay $500 and they do a crappy job, you have no recourse. They have no incentive to be a strong advocate for you since they a) already have your money and b) have flooded search results with their sites, effectively burying objective evaluations/dissent/complaints. If you found this when researching these guys, then you’re a pretty savvy reader.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
That reminds me of a travel company I almost got scammed by. Same type of thing and I was glad I took the time to Google them and find out I was better off running and not looking back! Glad you did not get scammed!
April 14th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Thank you so much for your rather informative review of One Stop. I too am interested in selling my car, but not desperate. Having researched them on the internet and the BBB and reading your blog I came up with the same answers…..I will be fine doing it on my own. Thank you!
April 14th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Thanks, Earl Sanders, a rep at OSM tried very hard to get my $500; but with a little due dil. I emerge Victorious!!
Thanks again, and keep up the good work!
Damon
April 26th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Thanks for the info. They called me tonight and, luckily, my husband told me I’d better look into them on the internet before committing. It’s a good thing I did. I was sold on the idea, but it is obvious that they do not legitimately try to sell your car. I will use 1/5 of that money and list it on several sites by myself.
May 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I recently got a call from One Stop Motors. They are a total scam and push for you to give them your credit card number. DON’T GIVE IT TO THEM. If you do, you’ll be sorry. I’m sure they provide some type of service, but certainly not even close to what they tout. I searched many types of vehicles on their site and there was not a lot there. Only other vehicle similar to mine. B Careful!
May 20th, 2008 at 12:38 am
I worked there for a few days and saw what was going on. The place is a scam and needs to be raided and shut down. They even have people to just dilute the internet with spam pages about them to drown out the complaints people post across the net about them. It obviously is not for SEO as they are not to be found on any meaningful search term doing with car sales in Google. Im so disgusted by these guys Ive started a blog to spread the word about these scumbags as a hobby.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I’m trying to find out if I can join a class action lawsuit against One Stop Motors or start one. What they do is nothing short of absolute fraud. Does anyone know what’s the best way to go about this. I have already given up on ever selling by car through them, or getting my $500 back, but I would love some retribution.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
s cruz - I’m sorry to hear you’re in that position. I don’t know about any lawsuit and I can’t give you any legal advice. Might be time to talk to a lawyer about it.
Random update - We got a comment from someone who claimed to have worked for One Stop Motors and had nothing positive to say. Since we can’t verify her employment, and since she says she works for a competitor we can’t, in good conscience, publish her comment. So if anyone out there has worked for OSM, help us verify it so we can add your thoughts.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Thanks a lot for this post….I almost got scammed by them today too.
But I was sure that I was not gonna give them my CC # before googling their ass. I am glad I didnt
June 5th, 2008 at 7:39 am
I totally agree with everything said. I, in a haze of being stressed about moving and wanting to get everything taken care of easily, purchased an ad with One Stop Motors. I then purchased an eBay addition (stupid, stupid, stupid), which they completely screwed up and charged me twice for.
Since filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and contacting their “Customer Remediation Program” at customerservice@onestopmotors.com and 702-567-8812, they have offered to continue listing my car and add a cars.com ad as well. (Customer Service Manager is Ray Spears). They claimed that they are trying to get out a good name for the company and right any past wrongs. I do not believe this, as everything else has been a sham so far.
I am highly unsatisfied with this company, the customer service and the way transactions are handled. I don’t know how to go about a class action suit, but do feel like it’s necessary.
Anyway - good job everyone for not buying into them. I wish I hadn’t.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Got call from said company and was first put off at the 5-minutes of sales ramble I received. They try and get it down, but fall short. Hello, I am calling about the truck you have for sale….. and then after the sales pitch ask a bunch of questions about the vehicle that were obviously in the sales ad that you posted to sell in the first place. I humored them (while doing something much more productive) and told them to call back next week. Same MO as the other writers here, more money for vehical than listed and no idea about your original ad.
My hard earned 500.00 can be well spent elsewhere.
Thanks for the heads up!!!!
June 21st, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Thanks for the info. I listened to the same script BUT after several conversations, they said all that was needed was to verify the payment of $499 for advertizing. OOPS, since I am a senior citizen my children must approve my expenditures to prevent me being scammed. Amazing, I haven’t heard from them.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:45 am
I worked there and you may contact me to verify any info you would like….
I didnt like the whole thing, it is in fact a scam and beware.
Thanks,
Jackson
August 15th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Also, me new email is:
old_osm_rep@yahoo.com
August 20th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Thanks for this info… my experience with them was exactly like you describe. I was very skeptical, but was in traffic so decided to listen. They give a fantastic pitch but it just smelled of BS. I got a price quoted for my vehicle (higher than expected, of course). At the end, and especially once I said that I needed to do a little more research… they started to get really aggressive about getting a credit card number. He launched into some “risk-free” explanation that the credit card company would give me 45 days to pay and if I hadn’t sold the car and received my payment by then… they would pay the $499 to my credit card (I’m assuming there was a lot of “fine print” that he wasn’t explaining, such as “we’ll pay that $499, but charge you another $499″). I told him that I needed to check with the wife, and then he started to offer a non-quantified discount to sign up right at that moment so I wouldn’t ask the wife. That’s when I got really suspicious… all they want is your credit card number. He wasn’t too worried about verifying vehicle condition or getting options/features correct… just wanted that credit card number. I’m GLAD I did more research… I consider myself a really smart guy, but that sales pitch was REALLY good, and I damn near fell for it. He did say that he’d call me back this morning (still haven’t heard anything). I’m assuming if they can’t get you right away… they’ll assume you’ve found the truth and won’t want anything to do with them. They’re right!
August 27th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! One Stop Motors has been calling for weeks leaving messages on my voicemail. Since I had already gone to look for a review the first time they called, I already knew they were probably scammers. I finally picked up the phone today and asked them if they ever go on the internet to see what people are saying about them? I told him no one is saying anything good. He quickly responded “I wasn’t doing it right (my research I presume) and he hung up on me. So I decided to re-look and found all this information validating that I was correct to be wary of these guys. Indeed….
October 8th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I am sick after reading these emails, since I now know I have been ripped off. I will be pursuing a lawsuit if anyone is interested in helping please email me at tgodfrey08@yahoo.com.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:18 am
One Stop called us with the same pitch. After listening I said we’d talk it over and call the rep back if interested. Of course, I then checked them out online and found what everyone found. I expect they will be calling back in a few days and at that point I will suggest the only way I will do business with them is to pay them the $500 when the sell the car. If they are truly legit that would be their policy!
November 17th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Thanks 4 the info. I just got a call from them this am. I will not be doing business with them. I think if they call back I will tell them that I am involved in a trust and everything needs to go through my trust attorney..This should stop them from calling me. THANKS AGAIN.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I got a call from them yesterday, and man they were smooth. But the pushy-ness of the salesperson got my gaurd up. When I asked why couldn’t she take the $500 from the proceeds that she was so sure would come quickly on my much-underpriced vehicle, she said that they are not licensed as a dealership and cannot do that legally. But that is total bull. They are not buying the car from me and reselling it, like a dealer would do, they are just collecting a finder’s fee, so they can take the money whenever they want. After all, it is them, not me, who is setting the sales price. If they are SO SURE that they can sell my car, then they can list it on their dime and collect the $500 when they send me the check for my car. Use logic and put yourself in thier shoes. If I KNEW I could sell YOUR car for you at much more than you were asking, then I would be more than happy to delay your fee until I sold it for you. Wouldn’t you?
In addition, no one starts with a Google or Yahoo search when looking for used cars. They go to autotrader or cars.com or something. When I typed in “bad credit car loan”, onestopmoters.com was not listed anywhere. How do they expect to find people who have bad credit even to find them? Drivetime was #1 on the list, and they are a legitimate brick-and-mortar type of store.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Davd L - Thanks for posting! I couldn’t agree with you more. You make several excellent points.
December 8th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Thanks for the info! I had a very similar experience where they offered me more than what the vehicle was worth and no pressure when I told them I would get back with them after I did some research. I am grateful I found this site. THANK YOU!
December 15th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
hehe…its pitiful that those guys at onestop have no respect for reason. i am glad i found this site. just confirmed my intuition. “oooo we’ll sell your car….ooooo we’ll put it on ebay….ooooo800gazilion billion hits..oooo [edited for content]!!
January 24th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
An OSM sales rep called me yesterday and made his pitch. He was offering to price my car 40% over market price. As I suspected, it was too good to be true. Their is no way they could be making money legitimately with this sort of pricing. I have very little doubt that this thing is a scam.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Thank you for the information on One Stop Motors. I was thinking about advertising my car with them as they promised my car would be sold for a much higher price than I was originally asking. They claim they are able to get that money because they finance. I will not be dealing with them and best of luck to those who are looking into lawsuits against them.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
You are right about that. What a racket!!
March 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Again….thank you for putting this info out there!…I was almost taken my these people……I was suspicious when they told me they could get $2600 more than what I was asking….which is $3600 above Kelly Blue Book Value……in this economy? Come on! I wish it was true!
March 25th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Remarkably, we continue to receive comments on this post, and they are universally negative of One Stop Motors. Some assertions are so damning that we’re worried about libel since we couldn’t possibly verify many of the claims made.
We are grateful to those who have submitted comments and we regret any disappointment which our reluctance may have caused if your comment was not published.
March 27th, 2009 at 7:11 am
$500 is a big amount! Pretty lame from those guys to deliver such a job!
March 30th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Great post there savvy dad! I love the responses. These guys are really something else. Persistent to say the least! I am trying to sell my vehicle on Cars.com and have been for several months. Seems nobody wants a 10 cylinder anymore, but I digress. The posting on cars.com went up back in July of 08 (Can you say $4.00 a gallon). They called a day after the posting went up and I listened to the spiel. I am an individual seller - kind of rare on cars.com - go figure. Anyway, it smelled fishy then and I balked. I did the research and decided it was a scam. I even changed my cars.com listing telling them to stop calling. They still call. In fact, I just hung up the phone with them. AHHHHHH!
I did find that a couple other sites have picked up my cars.com listing (oodle.com and freebo.com). That is not a pitch for those sites….guess their bots just picked it up crawling the web or they are are somehow affiliated with cars.com.
thanks for the post! I hope everyone who gets a call from one stop motors finds this post!
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Thanks to your post, and everyone’s comments I can safely stay away from OSM. Thanks a bunch!
April 20th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I recently listed my Harley for sale in cycletrader.com as I purchased another one. In a mater of days I received several messages every day from this Mark guy at the subject company, he said he ran my bike through his data base and had none like it and could get me $9000 (1500 more than I am asking) if I pay $499, my dad taught me if it seems too good to be true it is, I’ve researched this co and feel it is a scam too. thanks for the insight. I WILL NOT NOT BE SCAMMED!
April 28th, 2009 at 2:45 am
After unsuccessfully advertising with onestopmotors.com for $399, my credit card was charged an unauthorized $3990 a month later. They have not responded to my attempts to contact them. My credit card company is currently trying to contact them.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Unfortunately I have also been scammed by OSM. My truck is listed w/ them. We were guaranteed that our truck would sell in 2 wks. He had buyers just waiting in the wings. This person “Tom” said he would list it for $16,000!! I should have ran away when I heard that.
however, $500. and 18 months later, they have not lived up to their end. I call constantly. I will be filing a formal complaint and trying to get my money refunded.
RUN FROM THEIR SALES PITCH!!I should have done more research on them prior to listing with the them.
May 12th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
I am a current happy employee at One Stop Motors, and I have not been instructed by anyone to write this. I am not in sales so writing this has no benefit on my paycheck I just have read some posted blogs by some former employees who were let go for very good reasons. I think it’s amazing the amount of time a person will put into trying to destroy a reputable company’s reputation. I think that says a lot about one’s character, and possible problems of employing such a person. I see One Stop Motor employees doing their best to provide the best method of advertising to sell your Car, Truck, Motorcycle, Boat or Aircraft Online. I truly believe in what we do here is a beneficial service we offer our customers, especially in this struggling economy of ours.
Since I started working here at Onestopmotors.com I have seen and experience many positive things in the way CEO Rob Wilder, COO Ray Spears, and Sales Manager Glenn Johnson treat their Employees and the lengths they will go to keep them. There hasn’t been one time when I need something or had a question or concerns about anything that they weren’t there to listen and take action. Most people do or at least should realize you can’t please everyone all the time whether it’s an Employee or a Customer…. Sometimes people expect the impossible. But let me say that One Stop Motors goes above and beyond to satisfy both. Thanks Again to Rob, Ray and Glenn for your Support.
I invite anyone to share their positive experience about One Stop Motors. People are quick to talk bad about anyone and the satisfied are usually pretty silent. – Ted Garfield
May 20th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
I can’t believe I nearly fell for this scam. Same as all the stories above, they called saying they could sell my vehicle for $1500 more than I was asking. I asked on average how long it took to sell, they said typically around 45 days. I thought the same thing about paying all the money right up front. I told her I was not willing to pay the money right now, because I had someone coming to check out my vehicle this weekend and didn’t want to spend an additional $400 if I didn’t need to. She said if the potential buyer was interested to have them give them a call to purchase my vehicle through them and then they could get warranty/financing as well. Except they would have to pay another $500-1500 over what I was listing the vehicle for on my own, doubt they would do that. I would not. I was very skepical with the lady on the phone asking many, many questions and she always had a seemingly convincing answer. After each answer she pushed harder and harder to get my CC#. But I kept delaying, and she even went as far as to start asking how my name was spelled on the card and that was when I told her I needed to talk to my wife first (basically buying myself time to think this though and research the outfit because I had never heard of them before) and she said I had 1 hour to call back to get the same deal ($399 fee). Not enough time to properly research them. I did not call back and after reading all of these, DEFINITELY will not call back. But, hope they try back so that I can give them a piece of my mind. I feel soo bad for those who spend the money on this scam, and can’t believe how close I was to doing the same thing. DON’T FALL FOR THIS SCAM!!!!
May 27th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
we to was almost scamed,for the past two days they have been calling. even willing to drop the 500.00 down to 400.00 if i would just let them sell my 1965 impala.thank you BBB,and this site we will now do it on our own….
June 9th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
I posted my motorcycle on craigslist and within hours onestopmotors called me. They proposed that they had sold a similar motorcycle for more than double what I was asking. That was a big mistake because it smelled of ‘too good to be true’. Same deal as previous posts. I pay up front and they sell the bike for tons of money all of which I get to keep because they make their dime on shipping and financing. I decided not to trust them and got off the phone. Since then they have called back twice with more reasonable sales pitches. I finally considered them and started doing the research. And what do you know, …. it really is too good to be true. The next time they call I’m going to try to get them to send me some money. I think I’ll ask them for money for new tires or something.
George
June 16th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
i am glad i checked this out ,before i sent my money away
i was so close to send these scambags my money,ohh thank goodness i checked this post.
Great post there savvy dad!
June 16th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I am researching www.suresellautos.com, and looking at the BBB info, I think it is the same President/founder of OSM. Also, they were just incorporated in Jan or earlier in 2009, so I am guessing they stopped fighting the bad PR and changed their name. They even belong to the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce, which I called to confirm…I was tempted, too, but not willing to part with the CC number until I had done a full internet search, and sure enough I knew it was too good to be true…Back to my ad placement…sigh…
June 24th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I just got called by Frederick OSM. Just like everyone else have explained here, I gat the same selling techinic and got an offer from them ($2800 more than what KBB) After reading this I can not wait until I get a call from them again so I can play with them a bit now. Since they think that they can scam people I am going to make them work a bit before telling them that I am not going to used them!! Sorry for those how got caught in the middle of this scam.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Thank you so much for the info! My husband has a Harley to sell and he almost fell for One Stop Motor’s line of crap! We’re in a financial crunch right now and the last thing we need is to loose even more money- We have 4 kids to feed!
July 9th, 2009 at 9:40 am
I posted my car for sale on Craigslist. The same day, I received phone call from One Stop Motors. They told me the same thing about selling the car for me…
I asked them where did they get my phone number. OSM claimed that Craigslist sold my phone number to them, that is how Craigslist can provide free service.
“it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests”. As stated by Craigslist, we should not receive such call.
I hope Craigslist sue OSM.
It’s a shame that this company builds their business model on lie and scam and get away with it.
July 20th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Thanks everyone, I also got a call from them today and I think I need to run away from them.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I just got a call from them and recorded it. What ticked me off was the contradiction that on one hand they say they make money through financing, but on the other I need to post an ad on eBay through them. I asked, how about I incur all the costs of posting an ad on eBay and they just find and finance a potential buyer? Seems like my loss and their gain? The guy could not logically explain that so I asked him to send me an email with the website address so that I can do more research. Anyone interested in the conversation, let me know. In North Carolina it is legal to record a conversation as long as you are a party in it, so as long as you will not distribute the phone call you are more than welcome to hear it. Drop me a note at account20080910@gmail.com. Thanks for the post!
August 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Just got a call from OSM. John gave a very good sales pitch, and spoke very well about the program. It sounds legit and looks legit, but when we tried to view the links that their listings were connected to while on the phone together the advertisements on a couple cars never came up, even with multiple attempts. I never did see the search work. It all seemed very risky to me. I’m glad to have walked away.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
They kept calling me so I finally made it sound like I would sign up. Then asked since they are based in Las Vegas could I also get a Las Vegas hooker with my $499 guarantee if my car didn’t sell.
October 6th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
We unfortunately were taken. One Stop Motors is a SCAM!!! Do not do business with them unless you like to have your money stolen.
October 6th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
After posting the previous comment I received a call from the CEO of One Stop Motors and was able to come to a satisfactory resolution. Thank you Ray.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I got a call from them today and did some research. It does sound great, if it’s true. But I really doubt they could get the price they say they can for the car.
They do have a BBB “F” rating - I checked this out here: http://www.vegasbbb.org/bbb_rated_acc_rpt.asp?bbbid=65959&tr=rated&lg=F&ex=18%2C19%2C20#rat
They said the reason for this was that they are not registered. However, the BBB site says it’s because of all the complaints, which it lists. They also said that Disney also has an F because they’re not a member of the BBB either, but I couldn’t verify that.
They said they are registered with the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce, but I’m not sure what weight that holds. I’ve been thinking about calling them to get their opinon of the company.
Their eBay username “1stopmotors” only shows 90 sales, and a blue star. They said they put up 40 new cars per day (although not all on eBay), and have a 92% success rate on 7 day ebay auctions. But if they’ve been in business since 2002, like they said, they would have WAAAY more than 90 sales showing up. However, 72% of the ebay reviews are positive. So I guess that’s a good sign.
I told them about all the negative comments I’ve read on blogs about them, and I got to talk to the manager, Nicole. She said that a former manager, who now owns sellitnowmotors.com, paid another company to write negative blog posts, etc., about them, and they are now in a lawsuit with them. However, it appears that sellitnowmotors.com does not exist (BBB says it’s closed), and that similar complaints have been filed about it. I wonder if it’s the same company with a different name. I knew of another scam company (Amadeus Home Music School) who did something similar - kept changing their name to bypass the negative comments. I was definitely scammed by them, so I know this stuff goes on. Kind of sad. I wish this was legit… but it looks like it’s not, and I don’t want to risk $499 on it. I can submit my car to sites on-line, too…
December 8th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Jared B - Let me get this straight. You posted a complaint on this obscure weblog and within TWO HOURS the CEO of the company read your post, called you personally and resolved your problem, despite not leaving your phone number, email address or even a last name on the post?
How ABSOLUTELY miraculous.
Are all the goons who peddle OSM’s wares as massively incompetent as you are, or are you extra incompetent?
March 1st, 2010 at 6:39 pm
I worked there for a while and there is NOTHING good about this company this place is a SCAM all the way
March 1st, 2010 at 6:45 pm
and just an FYI they have people pulling up adds from craigslist, autotrader, and several more. they dont buy any info they steal it
March 9th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
The One Stop Scam continues. I was scammed and bought into their lies. After the 180 days was up I filed for the refund which was denied because I didn’t meet all of the undisclosed requirements to be eligible for the refund. They continue to use underhanded tactics nondisclosure to scam people. Buyers beware